ICYMI: Senator Collins Discusses Russia Investigation on CNN’s “State of the Union”
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Washington, D.C. - U.S. Senator Susan Collins, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, appeared on CNN’s “State of the Union” with guest host Brianna Keilar to discuss the Russia investigation.
A transcript of the interview follows:
“State of the Union”
June 11, 2017
6.11.17 Senator Collins on CNN State of the Union
KEILAR: With us now to talk about that, Republican Senator Susan Collins. She is on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator, thanks so much for joining us.
COLLINS: My pleasure.
KEILAR: I want to ask you about something the president has been cagey about, and that is these tapes, of course. So I wonder if you would support issuing a subpoena to the White House. Right now it's just a request coming from Congress. Would you support issuing a subpoena for the recordings or any documents that might come from that?
COLLINS: This is an issue that the president should have cleared up in his press conference. He should give a straight yes or no to the question of whether or not the tapes exist, and he should voluntarily turn them over not only to the Senate Intelligence Committee, but to the special counsel. So I don't think a subpoena should be necessary, and I don't understand why the president just doesn't clear this matter up once and for all.
KEILAR: If he doesn't, and a subpoena would be necessary to find this out, you support that?
COLLINS: I would be fine with issuing a subpoena, but that most likely would come from the special counsel's office.
KEILAR: Okay. President Trump, speaking of the special counsel, he said he would 100 percent be willing to testify under oath about his interactions. Do you think that that is something that should go before Robert Mueller, the special counsel, or do you think it should go before Congress or do you think both?
COLLINS: The president should fully cooperate with the special counsel and he's indicated that he will do so. We have to keep in mind that the focus of the Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation is on the extent of Russian influence on our elections last fall, and whether or not there was collusion, collaboration, cooperation between the Russians and members of President Trump's campaign team. So there are two different investigations with two different emphases under way right now. Both are critical. Both are really important to our country.
KEILAR: So it sounds like if he were to talk to -- you would be comfortable with him just talking to Bob Mueller?
COLLINS: Yes, I would be.
KEILAR: And if he does, should video of that testimony be made public, do you think?
COLLINS: Well, that really depends on how the special counsel decides to proceed. It would be unusual if in the midst of the investigation he were to release a video or a transcript of the investigation before the investigation is concluded. That’s frustrating because we all want to know all of the information, but keep in mind that his job is to determine whether or not there are any violations of criminal laws, and he wants to make sure that he has all the evidence put together rather than releasing it in a piecemeal basis. Our committee will release a public report at the end of our investigation, and we're proceeding, and I really commend the two leaders of our committee for what I thought was an excellent series of hearings last week.
KEILAR: The bipartisan support backing up what you just said there. The former FBI director said the pressure pressured him to back off from investigating General Michael Flynn. He wrote a note of the interaction with the president at the time he had it saying as much. The president said that never happened. So who do you believe, President Trump or James Comey?
COLLINS: I found Director Comey—former Director Comey's—testimony to be candid, to be thorough, and he testified under oath. So I believe that the information that he gave our committee is what he believed happened. That doesn't eliminate the possibility that there was a misinterpretation. What I don't understand is when the president did say to him that he should let go of the Flynn investigation, which was clearly wrong on the president's part, why the director did not say back to the president, “Mr. President, that is so inappropriate for to you do that. The independence of the FBI is really important and we cannot be having discussions like this.” I think he should have said that at the time.
KEILAR: If it was so inappropriate, then it sounds as if you understand, in the context of what happened, that that was some sort of direction coming from President Trump, so does that make what he said in the Rose Garden this week a lie?
COLLINS: Certainly Mr. Comey understood it as a directive. The exact language makes it more ambiguous because he says the president says, "I hope you can see your way to letting the Flynn matter go." That's still wrong for him to do that. Whether it's illegal is a whole ‘nother issue, and that's up to the independent counsel, but it was wrong of the president to even bring up the subject.
KEILAR: If he said to you, Senator, in the White House, if President Trump was talking to you and he said, Senator Collins, I hope you can vote for the health care bill, I mean, how would you interpret that? You would interpret that as a directive, right?
COLLINS: Actually, I wouldn't. I think he would be saying truly that he hoped that I would, since he knows I have a lot of reservations about it.
KEILAR: Okay.
COLLINS: But listen, the conversation should not have occurred. There’s just no doubt about that.
KEILAR: So you told CNN on Friday that perhaps it was the inexperience of the president—essentially that's what you said—that maybe he thought all of the meetings with the FBI director should be one-on-one. Is that an excuse for him? I mean, is that just an excuse, or do you think that's really something that is, makes, I don't want to say makes sense, but really could have happened?
COLLINS: Let me go back to the first meeting that the FBI director had with President Trump. At that meeting, which had several people in it, the FBI director asked that everyone leave the room except for him --
KEILAR: True.
COLLINS: -- And President Trump.
KEILAR: I’m running out of time, Senator, so I want to make sure I get this in, because that's a very important point that you make. Then the next meeting is in person, a dinner between the two, which is something that takes lead time. Clearly by this point in time the president should have been aware that this was inappropriate, so how is it possible that this was just him being inexperienced and taking cues from the first meeting if this is something that was set up with considerable advance from the White House.
COLLINS: Because my theory is that the president thinks that's how you interact with the FBI director, but someone should have stepped in. The FBI director should have stepped in, the deputy attorney general, the White House Counsel's office, to explain to the president. It's not an excuse. The president clearly does not fully understand or appreciate the boundaries, but he should. I’m not excusing his behavior, but I’m saying that there were a lot of people in government who should have set him straight, and we don't know whether they tried to.
KEILAR: Maybe a potential explanation, if not an excuse. We hear you on that. I do want to ask you—
COLLINS: Right.
KEILAR: --About health care before I let you go. There’s a quarter million people in your home state, Maine, and they rely on Medicaid. Are you willing to support a health care bill that would result in people losing Medicaid coverage?
COLLINS: I am not at all comfortable with the House-passed bill, and indeed I would oppose the House-passed bill. The Senate bill is still a work in progress. We haven't seen the actual language. We’re trying to influence the direction of that, but a bill that results in 23 million people losing coverage is not a bill that I can support. So we'll see what the Senate comes up with. It’s still being drafted.
KEILAR: It seems it would be almost impossible for a bill that does not cut some Medicaid to make it through a Republican Senate and a Republican House. Do you think you're being heard on what you're saying about people losing Medicaid?
COLLINS: Well certainty the outline of the Senate bill is far superior to the House bill, but we've got a ways to go yet. Now, there are ways to reduce the cost of Medicaid, and you can do that through managed care, such as the Indiana model, and that has produced better health outcomes and lower costs, so there are ways to reduce the cost of Medicaid without throwing people off the rolls.
KEILAR: Alright, Senator Collins, thank you so much. Senator Susan Collins of Maine joining us on this Sunday. We appreciate it.
COLLINS: Thank you.
